John and Charles discuss the emergence of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) by tracing its ideological roots through the Latter Rain revival, the shepherding movement, and the Jesus Movement. Charles expresses hesitation about addressing the topic due to its complexity and his desire to avoid the manipulative practices of cult leaders from his past. They explore the disconnect between their experiences in high-control religious groups and the countercultural lifestyles of early Jesus Movement leaders. Charles explains how Branhamite ideology subtly influenced other movements through shared deliverance models and authoritarian leadership, even when doctrines appeared different on the surface.<br /><br />They outline how figures like Lonnie Frisbee and Bob Mumford became key bridges between the shepherding movement and the Jesus People, eventually feeding into the development of the Vineyard Movement under John Wimber. This branch adopted elements like five-fold ministry and positive confession while initially lacking the “manifested sons of God” doctrine, which later returned through other influences. John and Charles emphasize the importance of perspective—how those who suffered under these systems view their fruits as destructive, while others see them as revival. They conclude that without acknowledging the doctrinal roots and manipulative structures, these movements are prone to repeating the same harmful cycles under new branding.<br /><br />00:00 Introduction<br />02:17 Hesitations About Discussing the Jesus Movement<br />03:55 The Disconnect Between Cult Survivors and the 1960s Counterculture<br />06:01 How Deliverance Ministry Shapes Paranoia and Demonization<br />08:15 Perspective Versus Indoctrination<br />08:35 Review of the Shepherding Movement’s Origins<br />09:37 Bob Mumford and Latter Rain Influence<br />12:14 What Was the Jesus Movement?<br />14:21 Lonnie Frisbee and the Shepherding Movement Connection<br />17:00 Chuck Smith’s Rejection of Shepherding Leaders<br />18:20 Comparing Cult Survivors’ Perspectives<br />20:08 Theological Roots: Authoritarianism, Positive Confession, and Escapism<br />22:25 Calvary Chapel’s Split and the Emergence of Vineyard<br />24:00 The Role of Full Gospel Businessmen<br />27:11 John Wimber’s Embrace of Shepherding Influences<br />30:02 Recruiting the Jesus People Through Emotional Appeal<br />33:32 Diverging Paths: Chuck Smith vs. John Wimber<br />35:16 Doctrine by Emotion vs. Doctrine by Scripture<br />36:58 Cult Structures Beneath Modern Revivals<br />38:35 Vineyard as a Faction of the Jesus Movement<br />39:44 Preview of the Next Episode: How the NAR Emerged<br />41:50 Signs of Cult Formation in Later Movements<br />43:12 Emotional Control and Indoctrination<br />44:59 The Importance of Preserving and Acknowledging Difficult History<br />50:32 Destructive Cycles Take Time to Manifest<br />52:08 Recommended Resources for Further Study<br />54:12 Closing Remarks and Final Warnings<br />______________________<br />Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:<br />Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962<br />Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCG
